# 2020-11-18 conda-forge core meeting [Zoom link](https://flatiron.zoom.us/j/93242638216?pwd=bjRCWmVJRW1oTGJhN09VUmxtTTJOUT09) [What time is the meeting in my time zone](https://arewemeetingyet.com/UTC/2020-08-26/17:00/w/Conda-forge%20dev%20meeting#eyJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL2hhY2ttZC5pby9wUk15dFVKV1FmU3NJM2xvMGlqQzJRP2VkaXQifQ==) [last weeks meeting](https://hackmd.io/r5eeo5cGQ7iHG1IgpB6axQ) ## Attendees - Filipe Fernandes - CJ - Nikolay - Eric Dill - Cheng Lee - Connor Martin - John Kirkham - Ray Douglas - Chris Burr - Marcel Bargull - Paul Ivanov - Isuru - Michael Sarahan - Crystal Soja - Wolf - Sylvain Corlay ## Agenda ### Standing items * [x] intros for new folks on the call * Nikolay from intel * [x] (CJ) budget * current approvals? * Whenever updated numbers land, please screenshare and show the budget. * Link is in Keybase (numfocus_spreadsheets.txt) * (CJ) We're all up to date and Oct P&L hasn't been published yet * [x] open votes * [ ] (MRB/ED/SC) Roadmap / Funding * goal is to spend 15 minutes each core meeting for ~3-4 meetings to discuss this * Save last 15 minutes for this. * https://hackmd.io/0zGSUS71SbOdBsdLtDmGjg * notes will get added to hackmd above * MRB will collate into a document of sorts * some resources 1. Some numbers: * https://github.com/conda-forge/by-the-numbers/blob/master/conda-forge-timelines.ipynb * conda-forge has added about 3k feedstocks per year in 2019 and will in 2020 * the growth in the amount of data we store appears to be accelerating 2. risk measurements * CJ deserves all of the credit for this idea * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADNNauwVZWUsEdlh5aEg0OLjyDWvCX7PLoo-K34EqcM/edit#gid=0 * going to skip today due to my own constraints * TODO: * Everyone take a look at the pypa roadmap: * fill out the risk measurement spread sheet: https://github.com/psf/fundable-packaging-improvements/blob/master/FUNDABLES.md #### From previous meeting(s) * [x] (MB) asking core members to move to "emeritus" status * TODO: Eric to set up quarterly check-in for all core members to see if they're interested in remaining "active" or if they want to move to emeritus * Remove emeritus folks from having access to various credentials (api tokens, twitter password, etc.)? This would require a change to the governance doc. * [x] (CJ) We seem to have some artifacts that have more files than expected * ~4~ 5 pkgs ship requests (other than requests itself) see below * What should we do about these? * Old pkgs * Newer/latest pkgs * Track on issue here: https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/issues/1189 ``` 'apache-libcloud-2.4.0-py27_1000', 'apache-libcloud-2.4.0-py36_1000', 'apache-libcloud-2.4.0-py37_1000', 'apache-libcloud-2.4.0-py_1000', 'autovizwidget-0.12.6-py_1000', 'dbxfs-1.0.38-py_0', 'google-api-core-1.20.0-py36h9f0ad1d_0', 'google-api-core-1.20.0-py37hc8dfbb8_0', 'google-api-core-1.20.0-py38h32f6830_0', 'google-api-core-1.20.1-py36h9f0ad1d_0', 'google-api-core-1.20.1-py37hc8dfbb8_0', 'google-api-core-1.20.1-py38h32f6830_0', 'google-cloud-bigquery-storage-core-2.0.0-pyh9f0ad1d_1', 'google-cloud-bigquery-storage-core-2.0.1-pyh9f0ad1d_0' ``` ### Your __new__() agenda items * [x] (IF/MRB/MV) intel oneAPI * TL;DR it appears we are free to ship the oneAPI compiler stack from intel * See these issues: * https://github.com/conda-forge/staged-recipes/pull/12527#pullrequestreview-531443464 * https://github.com/conda-forge/intel_repack-feedstock/issues/16 * License issues * can we ship software other than ISSL? * Place to raise issues * eg: MKL 2020.4 is segfaulting on an SVD * eg: TBB 2020.4 is not available for win/osx because of a hang * rough plan * figure out what exactly we'd like to ship * full intel compiler stack on conda-forge? * repackage intel provided conda-packages of the compilers? * intelmpi * opencl_rt * dpcpp_rt * oneCCL * do the thing * implement archspec stuff so we can turn on higher level SIMD optimization levels * plan to make work for gcc and clang too * allow people to optionally add intel stuff to their feedstocks via migrator (like aarch/ppc and osx arm) or admin command * (IF): Why would we need a migrator? * (MRB): make things nice for people * (MRB): solve any abi issues around fortran or other runtimes? * (IF): This would be a huge rebuild with little to no benefit for 99.9% of packages * (MRB): OK - happy to use an admin command to add it to feedstocks as needed * Other notes * https://github.com/jeffhammond/dpcpp-tutorial * todo * [ ] (Nikolay) licensing for opencl_rt * [X] (Nikolay) intelmpi ABI compat w/ mpich * Yes, Intel MPI have ABI compatibility and have plans to support it going forward * [ ] (MRB/IF) figure out how exactly to package C/C++ compilers * [ ] (MRB/IF) think about fortran ABI * [x] (MRB) make conda-forge compilers room (add people including keith) * [x] (CJ) Diversity and Inclusion Sub-team * https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/pull/1187 * [x] (CJ) Please fill out the critical infrastructure survey * https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ADNNauwVZWUsEdlh5aEg0OLjyDWvCX7PLoo-K34EqcM/edit#gid=0 * results so far: https://nbviewer.jupyter.org/gist/beckermr/9c0f5aa71720cf1b18646ccd0c3ab40f * [x] (MRB) bot now supports PRs into branches! * (UK) Thanks! * [x] (SC) OVH is giving us s3 storage that should be enough for storing all of CF alongside the VM * MSFT would be able to give CF credits for hosting ~$10k ### Pushed to next meeting * [ ] (MRB/IF) pybind11 packaging * issue: https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-pinning-feedstock/pull/849#issuecomment-727207060 * we agreed to a pybind11-abi metapackage that * is versioned with the pybind11 internal abi * has a run export on itself * pybind11 will have a run_constrained on its version * can be optionally added to host envs by users to enforce ABI compat as needed ### Active votes ### Subteam updates #### Bot #### ARM #### POWER #### CUDA #### Docs #### staged-recipes #### website #### security+systems ### CI infrastructure #### Compiler upgrade ### CFEP updates #### Open PRs * [cfep-04](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/7) X11 and CDT policy * INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status? * Needs new champion. Thanks for your work on this pkgw! Has unaddressed comments from pkgw as from Jan 10, 2020 * [cfep-06](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/9) Staged-recipes review lifecycle * INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status? * Lingering comment from @saraedum. @jakirkham, can you reply? Has unadressed comment from @saraedum from Jan 8, 2020 * (MRB) The stalebot has solved the worst of the issues here. I think we could defer this one permanently. * [cfep-10](https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge-enhancement-proposals/pull/15) Feedstock statuses, unmaintained * INACTIVE - Merge in with some inactive-esque status? * Needs another review. Has unaddressed updates from pkgw as of Jan 11, 2020 * [cfep-12](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/23) Removing packages that violate the terms of the source package * Stalled since May 26, 2020 * Active debate about moving to "broken" vs deleting from conda-forge channel * Active vote, ends on 2020-03-11 * What were the results of the vote? * Did we hear back from NumFOCUS? * [cfep-17](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/32) Handling pin backports and dependency rebuilds * Stalled debate about implementation details between Isuru, CJ and Matt * **UPDATE 2020-07-22**: We in principle have agreement to render the extra pinnings needed directly in the feedstock on a temporary basis (i.e., until the migration has ended). * [cfep-20](https://github.com/conda-forge/cfep/pull/39) ## Discussion ## Check in on previous action items Copy previous action items from last meeting agenda. ### This meeting 2020-11-18 * [ ] (IF/MRB/MV) intel oneAPI * todo * [ ] (Nikolay) licensing for opencl_rt * [ ] (Nikolay) intelmpi ABI compat w/ mpich * [ ] (MRB/IF) figure out how exactly to package C/C++ compilers * [ ] (MRB/IF) think about fortran ABI * [ ] (MRB) make conda-forge compilers room (add people including keith) * [ ] (MB) asking core members to move to "emeritus" status * [ ] TODO: Eric to set up quarterly check-in for all core members to see if they're interested in remaining "active" or if they want to move to emeritus * Remove emeritus folks from having access to various credentials (api tokens, twitter password, etc.)? This would require a change to the governance doc. ### Last meeting 2020-11-11 * TODO: Think about bringing in JOSS to provide context around how we might best write papers ### 2 meetings ago 2020-11-03 * [x] (MRB) proposed policy on when core pushes to the feedstocks they don't maintain * [x] (MRB) put in docs PR * [ ] (MRB) make PR on bot to mention the policy * TODO: Check on Forrest Watters permissions for core * [x] (FF) Outreachy would cost 6500 USD. * Next steps: write abstract and vote on spending of funds. ### Move to Issue Tracker 2020-10-28 2020-10-21 * [ ] (Marius?) Python 2.7 migration * ( ) [ ] make a hint * ( ) [ ] make an announcement * ( ) [ ] make the hint a lint 2020-10-07 * [ ] Make sure to add the NVBug info to the cudatoolkit package that conda-forge makes (if we make one) 2020-09-30 2020-09-23 * [x] (MRB) * do libgfortran name change * add target platform to hashes * do gfortran migration with bot * bump pinnings 2020-09-16 * [x] Get a call set up with Jon Mease about the kaleido staged recipes PR * Emailed on 2020-09-16 * [x] (FF) Open up a PR on the python feedstock for python 3.9 and see what fails 2020-09-09 * [ ] (ED) Update governance docs with similar voting model as what got put into conda-tools (+3 with no -1 is a pass) * [ ] (SC) Write jinja template to turn institutional partners yaml into a website https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/blob/2a2d3caaf7d74eb370ac40c679ba337a73d15c8a/src/inst_partners.yaml * [ ] (SC) Document what needs to be done to create an OVH account and get access 2020-08-26 **Docker hub** * [ ] (JK) Check in on Azure build workers to see if they have the docker hub limitation. * [ ] (JK) work with dockerhub to see if we can get OSS status * [ ] Check in again at some point. We haven't heard back as of 2020-09-23 * [x] (MRB) start pushing images to quay (https://github.com/conda-forge/docker-images/pull/152) **OVH** * [ ] (???) build webpage to credit them (and others) * [ ] If we're adding a logo, will want to make sure that we have permission to use it. * [ ] Shout-out on twitter at some point. "Thanks forOVHCloud for providing a VM", etc. (maybe after we ship qt on windows with it?) * [ ] Figure out how to communicate breaking changes to users. Likely should open up an issue immediately for futher discussion. Ping @kkraus, plus capture notes from further up in these meeting notes * [ ] John K. will update the cuda toolkit feedstock on the git repo to note the NVBug link to the internal NVIDIA issue tracker * [ ] Jonathan will update docs to note that some non-exhaustive list of packages (like cuda-toolkit, MKL, etc.) * [ ] Jonathan will review this [PR](https://github.com/AnacondaRecipes/cudatoolkit-feedstock/pull/7) * [ ] (Kale) schedule conda working group * [ ] cfep-10 next steps: CJ to call a vote for feedback * [ ] cfep-06 next steps: Ask staged recipes team to champion this CFEP and move it forward * [ ] jakirkham & CJ-wright to sync on adding CUDA to the migration bot * [ ] (Eric) Scheduling Anaconda <-> conda-forge sync on anaconda.org requirements gathering * Will try and get this scheduled in the next month. * [ ] (Anthony) Reach out to NumFocus to figure out legal ramifications of not including licenses in files. * [ ] (Eric) check internally for funding levels for hotels & flying folks from the community in? * [ ] (Eric) Figure out finances of conda-forge to support themselves? * [ ] (jjhelmus) Open up CFEP for which python's we're going to support * [ ] (jakirkham) write a blog post on CUDA stuff we discussed today * [ ] (jakirkham) update docs on how to add CUDA support to feedstocks * [ ] (jakirkham) will open an issue on conda-smithy to investigate Drone issues. (ping the aarch team) * https://github.com/conda-forge/conda-forge.github.io/issues/954 * [ ] (ED) Who we are page? Some combination of a FAQ and a who is everyone. FAQ things like: * who's the POC for CF <> Anaconda, CF <> NumFocus, CF <> Azure * who's the POC for the various subteams? * Informal information: roles, day jobs, bios, the whole nine yards, why you're here, etc. * Public or internal? I don't really care either way. Anyone feel strongly one way or the other? * opt-in to public bios * software carpentry has a large number of instructors and has https://carpentries.org/instructors * some concern about "yet another place to keep stuff up to date" * [ ] (ED) document strategies for reproducible environments using conda-forge * [ ] (UK) Static libraries stuff * [ ] Add linting hints to builds to find them * [x] Recommend how to package them -> CFEP-18 * [x] We should write docs saying we don't provide support and this is a bad idea. -> CFEP-18